Michael Bolton shirts, motivation, and the Samson theory of hair [00:00:00]

Brian Pritchard: Celluloid. And we're turning it into music and podcast free

Nicky P: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of We Came From Celluloid. I am Nicky P., here as always with the man trapped behind steel bars Mr. Brian Pritchard, otherwise known as the man in the Michael Bolton shirt. How are we doing today, buddy?

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, no, you, you, you, you... Spoiler alert, bro. Yeah, no, how could I be bad while- whilst wearing my Michael Bolton tour T-shirt, proudly?

No, I, I reached for it today. I hadn't worn it in a while. I was like, "Oh, I think I bought that when I was wearing XLs," you know, and I've drifted a little bit more towards the 2X again, and been trying to keep it at bay. So I mean, wear- wearing a n- my, my XL shirt, just helps even serve as a reminder, you know?

It's like, if you wanna wear this Michael Bolton shirt, you gotta stay disciplined. So, it's one of the many ways, one of the many gifts I suppose, that, that Mr. Bolton gives, gives to us all, but me in particular today. Thank you for asking. I'm well.

'90s adult contemporary and why "Babe" by Styx still chills Nicky out [00:01:19]

Nicky P: He- he's one of those artists that, like, I definitely forget sometimes how much I enjoy the work from that era.

The '90s adult contemporary scene is just something that's super, super interesting, I guess, in the way that it has affected and stayed with my life for the length of time that it has. Like, I would, I always bring up the song, Babe by, Styx, and it's because of its association with, like, '90s adult contemporary radio.

It was just one of those songs that they'd play, like every evening around like 8:00, 9:00 to kinda chill you out for that radio vibe. Now, I realize this is something that anyone who's is a kid is never gonna understand about how terrestrial radio used to work and the rhythms of the world. But you know, to me, that song just always has this, like real calming, chilling, just real calming effect.

Ma- chills me out almost immediately because of, it's what I used to listen to on my clock radio when I was like seven or eight years old trying to go to sleep at night. Like I re- I very distinctly remember these, you know, it's, it's summer, it's 8:00, 8:00, 9:00, and it's still h- like light out because it doesn't get dark that early in the...

Very, very specific memories for me. It's a good song, a- aside from that, but the memory is really what the, the nostalgia's palpable.

Brian Pritchard: Well, you know, what, what I was thinking of too was with, with Bolton, and he's not certainly alone, but he's the strongest example I can think of. I, as a, a, a child, I, I, Y- you hear some of these, biblical stories, you know, one of which is, is Samson and Delilah, and the, the story of the great Samson whose power lived in his hair, you know?

And, and Bolton always, you know, i- in the last few years, sure, he cut it, but like- Like Alex Trebek's mustache, you know what I mean? Like, th- there's people that have these sort of, totemic items, attached to them, that, that seem to be the source of their power. And for Bolton, that hair, was doing a lot of the heavy lifting, for, for many years.

Geddy Lee's voice, aging vocalists, and the decision not to see Hall & Oates live [00:03:43]

Nicky P: Yeah. Oh, without question. And it's like I immediately, you said Biblical reference, thinking about he's gonna do the Samson reference. He's gonna. And I think it was, what's more important though is that, like, he, he proved himself to not be Samson in that when he did cut it, you know. He co- he came back after what, a 20-year hiatus with Lonely Island doing Jack Sparrow.

But- Yeah,

Brian Pritchard: Dude. Yep...

Nicky P: He had that, he had that Valentine's Day special on Netflix, the same kind of time period.

Brian Pritchard: The birthday song. He, he, I don't know if you're aware of this, if it's that universally known, but he, he has a thing where, you know, I, I, I could, I could, hook up a thing where it's going like, he sings a, "Today is your birthday, happy birthday.

It's the very best day of the year." And then it's personalized where he goes, "Oh, Nicky, it's been well worth the wait." You know? It's-

Nicky P: I feel like it's, I feel like I remember that being in my recesses somewhere, but I don't really remember it.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah. And, and, and, and it, it definitely in, in our household for the pets, for the humans, like e- every time I he- I think of that song, in fact, the one that I hear is for my cat who I'm looking at over there.

I hear Michael Bolton going, "Oh, Judith, it's been well worth the wait." Do

Nicky P: You, do you at all recall the Hall & Oates hotline from back in the day?

Brian Pritchard: Yes. C- it was somewhere in my 20s probably. I mean, I was definitely already, working, and working as a recruiter where I was on the phones all day. So yeah, absolutely. Somebody, hipped me to that. Yes, that was very cool.

Like,

Nicky P: No matter where you are in the world, you can always get a little Hall & Oates.

And more importantly, the fact that they kept that running as long as they did was impressive to me. Like, the, that there's nobody just ever took it down when, like, the pho- like, phones became a thing where they, like, ma- they paid to maintain it for decades after, like, you know, who really cares about Hall & Oates in that respect.

Brian Pritchard: Is it gone now for sure? Is it definitely gone or could it still be there?

Nicky P: I... No, I'm pretty sure it's still... I'm pretty sure it still exists.

Brian Pritchard: I hope so. I should, I should Google that in the background. But, no, I, I, you know, just related, whi- while we're still on the Bolton topic, the, a less upbeat, p- piece of the puzzle was, you know, I did go to see him perform and, it was another situation where you're going like, "Oh, shoot," like he, he is now officially, like, past his prime, right?

That, that- He had his signature voice, but it, and it wasn't at, like, half capacity the way when I went to see, like, Phil Collins on the Last Domino? Genesis tour. That was my only time seeing him perform live, and you sort of go like, not that I regret going or anything, but it's like, yeah, objectively I almost feel like I've, I've still never seen him because that wasn't, you know, a full-blown performance.

Michael Bolton, his voice sounded pretty strong still. Like a lot of the, the old-timers, they start kinda leaning on their backup singers a little bit to, to fil- fill it out and not sound as frail. But it was more the way he was moving, right? That, like, he, he had old man frailty in his body. In the, in the way that...

I know this is jumping around a lit- a bit, but, like, if you watch The Irishman and they did all the de-aging stuff for Robert De Niro, but he was still, like, an 80-year-old man. So in the scenes where they've, they've made him look like a 40-year-old and he's, like, running up and down a flight of stairs or whatever it's like th- th- there's a gingerness in his mo- movement.

Specifically the scene where there's a guy on the ground and he's, like, supposed to be, like, kicking him. Like, he does that in Goodfellas and he looks tough and scary. You can see it in this, and you sort of go, like, "That's an 80-year-old man who doesn't want to hurt his foot." And yeah, Michael Bolton had that same vibe on stage where it was like, oh no, like, he's, he's, he's stepping out carefully.

He's not doing a power stance. He's not... You know what I'm saying? Like-

Even over 10 years, Nicky's voice has changed — the Puma Thurman rewrite conversation [00:08:11]

Nicky P: I've made it a p- I've made it a point to not go and see certain artists because I didn't want to have to see that. Like, Hall & Oates I had the chance to see and I chose not to because I, I could tell from the internet where Daryl's voice was going, and it would be really tough to watch that as a vocalist.

Like, to see one of your heroes kind of... I got lucky in that, like- Be constructed,

Brian Pritchard: Be

Nicky P: C- confronted with obsolescence in that way is tough Well, I mean, I, it, e- even over the 10 years that we've done this band, my voice has changed drastically. Like, I can't hit the notes easily like some of our earlier stuff.

Like, I've kinda rewrote things, and I think it's been for the better in a lot of cases, but, you know, it's d- a reality that I just can't hit them.

Brian Pritchard: You know we're doing the half-step for Dome, right? For Brian

Nicky P: Oh, it's, it's nothing like that. It's nothing like that. Like, for my voice, like I'm talking wildly.

Brian Pritchard: No, I'm not saying you need it, I'm just ackno- acknowledging another way that, that I'm recognizing that, yes, for, for Dome, for our tour, our singer, B- Brian Nolan, that, that you know, had, had, has... We had played around with a full step, and then it kinda messed with everybody's ears too much, you know? So we, we settled on that half step.

But yeah, yeah, it helps him.

Catching Rush on the Vapor Trails tour and what it means to watch a hero decline [00:09:32]

Nicky P: I got lucky in that I caught Rush directly out of high school. Like, my senior year was their Vapor Trails tour, so I kinda caught them at a place where, like, Geddy's voice was starting to... Like, he's, he's making conscious decisions, you can tell. He's probably like where I am now, where like the voice is still there, but he's choosing which notes to hit and not to hit a little bit more You know, thoughtfully.

Whereas I, I even listening to the recordings of the R40 tour that everyone, "Oh, it's, you know, Rush 40," dude, this, even the recordings are terrible of that. And again, I would've hated to watch, you know, Geddy be that guy on stage. 50's the one they're on now, isn't it? I think that's where they're at now, and they're touring with that, that girl.

Once again, that's, it's weird.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah. Honestly, the, the, the clip that I saw sounded great, you know what I mean? And I'm not questioning that. I'm sure it's not the same experience it was 10, 20, 30 years ago, but for as much as everything he does starts with the, the, that high end, I'm sorta going, "Dude, I'm shocked you can get through a single fucking note."

But maybe that's just because it was naturally his voice in the first place, you know? But.

Nicky P: Well, no, and that's exactly, he does have that kind of voice. And the thing is, is I- I'm, I'm more interested in, like, I don't know that I wanna watch Rush without Neil Peart anyways. Like, to me, he was the lyricist, he was the drummer, and, like, more importantly, he was a, a genre de- defining drummer.

Like, Neil, Neil Peart is Neil Peart.

Air Supply still crushing it live (the belting vs. power distinction) [00:11:15]

Brian Pritchard: You know who crushed it, now that I'm thinking about it, for as old as they were, was Air Supply. When I went to see them.

Nicky P: It's very different type of vocals. So I, and it is awesome that they s- they'd be able to keep doing that too, like, 'cause it's such a clean style.

It's not that... And I think a lot of it is the difference in, like, that rock belting, that when you can't belt anymore, you don't have that in you, it's tough.

Brian Pritchard: Boy, I don't know. I mean, air- the Air Supply stuff to me, there's a lot of power there. I mean, we're, it's back to what we were talking about the other day, you know?

Like-

Nicky P: Power and belting are a little different, though.

Brian Pritchard: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I, I think of, I think it's Graham. I don't remember the, actually, their two first names, but, but the, the, the, the one who has the more fingerprint-esque voice of the two, right? You know what I mean? Uh- He definitely projects when he's singing, more so than the other guy.

The, the, the other guy has a nice voice, you know. A n- you know what I mean? Like a h- a harmless voice. You know, I don't know. Yeah, it's funny that this has come up multiple times this week, like the, the conversation where my dad was talking about that. I think although that was at maybe even after we were done recording the official one, where we were talking some more about the fingerprints inside voices.

The fingerprint of a voice and what makes a singer sound unassailably like themselves [00:12:44]

Nicky P: Well, and it's technically a conversation that stems from, like, our time at the gym on Monday where it's like, you know, I, I asserted that, like, the, the fingerprint of a voice is, is so important. J- across genre, doesn't matter. Like, your ability to sound unique and sound like you unassailably is super, super important.

Like, one of the criticisms I've always gotten is like I, I can be very chameleon-like with my voice and do a lot of things. But, like, settling into what does my voice sound like when I sing, you know, to me, like, I guess my singing voice is, you know, w- what I've settled on is the Puma voice, where it's a lot of affectation and it's a lot of me having fun doing silly things with my voice.

Part voice acting, part singing, and that's, like, what I find the most joy in doing. But that's 'cause, like, a lot of my favorite singers are, you know, like, S- Steve, I think. Is it Steve from, Steven Page from Barenaked Ladies. You know, that's a guy I look up to vocally. You know, I like Neil Diamond a lot, you know, as a vocalist.

Nicky names the Puma voice: "part voice acting, part singing [00:13:58]

Brian Pritchard: Sure. Well, and, and it's funny, I'm thinking about how-

Nicky P: Just be aware, we're always gonna have a life as a sing-talk band someday.

Brian Pritchard: No, I'm totally down. And, and, and the, I'm thinking about your point about the theatricality of it and, and going, to whatever extent I've, I've experimented with what my singing voice is, it's, it's been in, more of a karaoke c- context, right?

That, that I have a harder time- Singing with confidence and authority if I'm trying to be sincere. Whereas, like, one of my staples in a karaoke environment is, do, do you know the, the Thunderball Tom Jones song? The James Bond theme, Thunderball? I'm not familiar with it, but I do love me some Tom Jones.

Yeah, just but like s- I, I discovered one day, it was like I was as surprised as anybody, you know? It's like I was mostly just trying to like make my friends that were there chuckle with like a, a real like deep cut kind of curve ball. But like I took to it so naturally, right? That I'm going, "She always runs while others walk."

And I'd be like, "Oh my God," like that feels like natural and like something I can do. Like I'm not hurting my voice. Like it felt good, but like it, I could only really go there because of, of feeling funny. Oddly enough, even in the few minutes I was in the car earlier, I don't even watch that show Hacks, but the, the one younger actress, Hannah Einbinder from it, she was talking about with Conan O'Brien, they were both talking about as it related to acting Cody was sort of saying, like, "I could never sit there and, like, film a, a serious love scene.

Like, I couldn't imagine it." He's like, "But, but at the moment that I'm doing it for jokes, then, like, suddenly it's me and Ryan Reynolds just like, you know, making out in the rain, like, and I'm all in." You know what I'm saying? Like, and, and she was sort of saying the same thing, going like, "Yeah, like, I had a scene on Hacks where, like, I was in my bra and underwear and it's like, in my regular life, I, that's not who I am.

Like, I'm not trying to be that, you know, the, the hot, sexy girl or whatever. But my comfort with it is that this scene was a moment that was being played for laughs." It was, the scene was about how poorly this, like, intimate moment was going and, and so, like, she's like, "Yeah, like, I, I, I didn't... I, I, I don't have any memory of being, like, uncomfortable on the day, in the moment, in the way that if I was filming a scene, like a love scene, trying to be attractive, trying to be sexy, then, like, you would've been way more self-conscious about it."

And yeah, it's just interesting.

Tom Segura's Bad Thoughts and the comedian-doing-drama connection [00:16:46]

Nicky P: So do you, do you, do you watch, Tom Segura's Bad Thoughts at all?

Brian Pritchard: No. No, I don't know it. I, I barely know the dude's name. He, he, he's a stand-up though, yeah?

Nicky P: Yeah, he's a very, very powerful and wealthy stand-up at this point. I caught him, like, his, his Completely Normal a number of years ago.

Yeah, oh, he's... He gets stupid money. Like, we're, we're talking, like, selling out Madison Square Garden. Kevin Hart, like, size at this point.

Brian Pritchard: So I should know him is, is part of your point. Yeah, go on. Go on, please.

Nicky P: He, Kevin, you probably know who he is. Him and his wife have a gigantic podcast, like, the Your Mom's House podcast.

It's huge. But I ask 'cause his Bad Thoughts, the, the show ostensibly the joke, part of the joke is it's him wanting to become a real actor, so it's him doing all this sketch comedy stuff. But, like, it's, it's all real bad. Like, I think the opener to season two is, like, he gets a pill where he does all of his, uh- A- a- all, all of his, the things that make you not do stuff, inhibitions go away, and so he just does whatever he feels like.

By the end of it, he's like, he's got a gun and he robs the guy with, the, the guard with the, the money truck at the bank, and is like dancing with him and then shoots the guy and takes the money. Like, goes completely off the rails and the scene ends with like him having a huge erection and this giant smile as he's being gunned down by police at the end of it.

And he's like Joker dancing the whole time. It's actually a dance sequence. The, like... Absolutely hilarious. But, but what I was going with is that there's a, a, there's a moment in there specifically, one, one of the episodes in the second season where he's doing... They, they brought in the intimacy coordinator and like, and he's supposed to be doing this i- intimate scene with this actress.

He's being, being a very respectful guy. But because he's a comedian, the intimacy coordinator just hates his guts. And like she's got the earpiece in and she's talking to him, just treating him like complete dog shit and finally... And so like he's just completely screwed. Everything is terrible. And, and i- it ends up being like they, he ends up winning the Oscar for this love scene.

Be- and you see the, you see the end of it, it's, it's just him on top of this woman bawling his eyes out because of how brutally he's being assaulted and is in ear monitors by the woman. And then you find out that like he died of a heart attack during the scene on set. But he, but he won the Oscar for it.

It's y- you just talking about like the, the, just this, the serious actor comedy thing and like the ways in which all that interact.

Key & Peele, Jordan Peele as filmmaker, and short-form content as a testing ground [00:19:33]

Brian Pritchard: Wow. So that's like y- yeah, a concept for an ongoing series. That actually does sound, sound very interesting. And, no, what, what, what, what I'd wanted to echo, fr- from that, just 'cause it, it, it reminded me of it, was I, I, I went back and watched Key & Peele more after I got into Jordan Peele as a filmmaker and, and, sorta had that, a, a similar thought where it was like, you know, you're saying that, that this guy was sort of using this show as a way to like test out his dramatic range, his acting chops.

Like, let me see what it's like to be, you know, slide over the hood of the car as the action guy. Like, I felt like watching that, like, going back and watching Key & Peele, there were times where there were filmmaking technique things that I'm going, "Got it." These, these sketches also gave, gave you the opportunity to, to test out some of those ideas.

Like I actually remember, I, I think I still have a VHS copy of a documentary I, I'm, I, I, I don't remember the name. I remember that Dennis Hopper was, like, the host of it, and that it was about the relationship between commercials, like 30-second ads, and then f- and, and filmmaking, and how guys like Tony Scott and Ridley Scott got their start in that space.

David Fincher with commercials and music videos, right? That it's like sometimes the short form stuff absolutely can be an opportunity to... Or, or, or in fact, I've seen even, like, I'm thinking of the, like Wes Anderson has done some great commercial work later in his career, where you're going like, "Yeah, of course, you know, they're, you're getting paid well to do it."

But I, I, I get the sense that it's like you're, you're also using this as an opportunity to, like, try out an idea. 'Cause I feel like there's been things inside Wes Anderson's commercials that then the technique is deployed in whatever feature he's making next, you know? Like, y- it's testing the idea out then, like, going like, "Got it.

Now that I've got a hang of it," you know. Yeah.

Ridley Scott, Tony Scott, David Fincher: commercials and music videos as film school [00:20:00]

The original Spawn VFX company using the movie as a demo reel [00:21:40]

Nicky P: You'd rather s- you'd rather see that than in, like, the middle of a, an actual motion picture. I don't know if you know m- much about y- the, the original movie Spawn from the '90s, John Leguizamo, um.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, the Leguizamo one, I mean, never really was a favorite.

I, I've maybe seen it once. Yeah.

Nicky P: It was not a great movie. I love the character. Not a great movie. And in part it's because the s- special effects company that they hired to do it did a bunch of r- wild and ridiculous stuff using the movie as a test reel to, like, show off what they could do for other m- o- other productions.

Like, they kind of assumed the movie wasn't gonna do well, and so they just used it to do whatever wild ideas that they had, basically. And so you get a bunch of stuff that there's no reason for it in the movie. It has no basis in the comics or anything. But, like, they, they wanted to do it, so they did. And, like, at the end of it, the director's left like, "I gotta make sense of something."

Jurassic Park vs. Lord of the Rings vs. the movies that fumbled effects [00:22:46]

Brian Pritchard: Throughout all of special effects, I mean, that, that's interesting to hear, you know, anecdotally about the intention, specific intention to be like, "Yeah, forget it, let's just use this as a, create, create ourselves a, a promo reel that we could use." But, like, at, at, at various points along the development of special effects, it's just been interesting to see the way they do or don't affect stuff.

I mean, like, I'm thinking about how, um- Jurassic Park to me still holds up and, and the way the effects are used and the integration between, you know, what was at the time cutting edge CGI and practical effects. The way Lord of the Rings ble- blended, you know, saying, "We're, we're using every known technique, old school and new side by side together."

That stuff's really effective. And then I'm thinking of, what was, Man, there's this movie where, like, they, they keep going in time to, And they accidentally, like, step on... It had Ben Kingsley in it. It has, like, the worst effects you've ever seen, and it, it's like 10 or 15 years after Jurassic Park where you're sitting there and going like, "How is it possible that this could be as bad as it, as it is in terms of the visuals?"

You know what I mean? Yeah, sometimes it really wrecks it.

CGI is objectively worse now than in 2008 — the overburdened pipeline argument [00:24:13]

Nicky P: And as you mention that though, it's like, but I want you to really look at where we're at right now special effects-wise. And their special effects are, they're too ubiquitous to the point where special effects in movies are worse now than they were in 2008 because they All of the special effects companies are overburdened with too many jobs.

Like, they can't put the stuff out fast enough for Hollywood. They're also being underpaid for it. And so you're getting, like, movies 20 years later that look crappy because they just, they don't have the, the people to do it right anymore. You know? U- unless you're getting, like, really special effects-driven movies like Avatar.

But does Avatar, any of the Avatar movies look better than they did 20 years ago?

Ant-Man: Quantumania and how Marvel rolled backwards [00:25:11]

Brian Pritchard: No. Well, and it, and it's interesting. So, number one, I guess on, on, on that side, and then I did find the name of the movie. But you're right. Like, a, a, a movie that I, I think will forever stand out as one of the first times I really clocked, like, "Oh, weird.

We've somehow, like, not only plateaued, but, like, we're rolling backwards." I, I enjoyed some of those Ant-Man movies. I'm into the Marvel stuff. It was part three, Ant-Man: Quantumania, that, like, it... There's so much of it taking place in the quantum universe, and it's all these alien creatures and stuff like that, and it's like, how d- how does this look so bland and boring compared to '70s Star Wars?

You know what I mean? Like, you know. And, and I appreciated when, when, like, Favreau came in to make, Mandalorian, that, that, that, that there was some recognition of that. You know? That, that, that I think people were realizing exactly that. And you have somebody like, yeah, Jon Favreau, who, who at least stepped in and said, like, "No, we're going to intentionally use things like stop motion."

I mean, I went to see that new Star Wars movie. I didn't really like it all that much, but that was, from a filmmaking perspective, you know, really, really cool to see, was like so much practical effects, stop motion stuff being deployed. Um-

Practical effects work because practical effects work [00:26:37]

Nicky P: Well, you're, you're seeing more and more of it across the board because it's always worked.

Practical effects work because practical effects

The cultural hunger for authenticity: VHS, cassettes, vinyl [00:26:45]

Brian Pritchard: Work Well, and because I, I, I think overall part of, part of the cultural movement towards AI, not just in the arts or any, any one space. I'm speaking broadly when I say I think the more we move towards artificiality, the more something is kicking in inside us that is hungry for authenticity as, as a, as a, a way of balancing that.

That, that there's a, a, a... I'm noticing how, like, the, the, the resolution for home theater bubble I feel like has pa- has, like, popped as well, where I don't think we're going to go from 4K to 8K, right? That, like, VHS to Blu-ray, or excuse me, VHS to DVD to Blu-ray, everybody including collectors was still very much on board.

I've, I've followed the trend as it escalated to 4K, 'cause I'm, I'm still a collector at heart, and I wanna get the best thing. But I, I'd say broadly speaking, even amongst collectors, even amongst myself, I bought VHS tapes again in the last year. They're releasing stuff again on VHS in the same way that old formats, vinyl has, has had a resurgence for a long time.

But it's wild seeing new releases, having a standard new release from a major artist include cassette You know what I mean? And, and it's like, what the fuck? Like that's not, that's not for pristine sound quality. It's, it's because of perceived authenticity I think that comes with nostalgia and the old, doing things the old ways.

Backrooms, the uncanny valley, and why AI makes us feel sick [00:28:25]

Nicky P: And I think there's, I think there's more deep to... Like, we're talking there are deep cultural things, deep like s- human things. Like, there's that new movie out, Backrooms, and I had a friend of mine, online who went and saw it and said, and this is a mus- he's a musician too. He's like, "The movie f- every scene feels like a song that refuses to resolve."

Like you just, everything you see and feel is just this unresolved thing. And he's like, it made, it made him sick to his stomach to watch it. And I've seen elsewhere, like one of the things, why is it, what makes it so spooky and creepy is it's, it's playing with the uncanny valley on a global level to watch.

And there, it's a real thing. People, you inside of you, we, we picked up this, we fear things that look-

Brian Pritchard: Artificial and-...

Nicky P: A little bit- And interacting the wrong-... Too real or unreal.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicky P: Yeah, something and, and, and so I think that's a lot of what drives the AI f- panic that we have right now is, is just that very specific thing.

If things are inorganic but work, like they, they, they reach us at a, an animal instinctual level to be afraid of them. And then when you pull that into, you know, the, the, like you just, no, no, no, I, no, no, no. You just get an unnatural feeling like that towards things. Now, I'm the kind of person why I look forward to movies like Backrooms, 'cause I like to lean into things that do that to me.

But, but that's 'cause I'm a psychopath that leans into that stuff. You know, and especially for like, you know, yet again another YouTuber who made a movie and, you know, made a bunch of money for an ind- I guess he made a bunch of money as an outsider in an industry that is in itself failing because it can't make appropriate decisions

Backrooms makes $82M opening weekend — biggest A24 horror opening ever [00:30:24]

Brian Pritchard: Dude, that, I saw some, like, chart, and was so happy for, for every- for the, for the industry, for movies, for the people.

Like, like, the chart was that this m- made, like, 82 million or something in its opening weekend, which was, like, by a lot the biggest opening for A24, you know, big opening for a horror movie. Like, I'm just so happy across the board. Like, that felt like a really shockingly big number, for, for that type of movie.

Obsession: a YouTuber's $300K film beats a Disney Star Wars movie [00:30:52]

Nicky P: But here's what you need to also pay attention to going on in that scenario. The weekend before, I believe Companion came... Or not Companion. No, Obsession came out.

Brian Pritchard: Which I loved.

Nicky P: Well, but, but here's, but here's the k- here's the key is that the both of those movies were made $100 million weekends. And what movie's in third place right behind them?

YouTubers are, like, putting, putting out of work giant mega corporations that, like, sp- how many millions of do- like, how many hundreds of millions of dollars went into making that Star Wars movie? And a guy who, you know, made a movie for a couple hundred thousand. I, I, I think it was, it was, I wanna say it was, like, 300 and some thousand dollars, and he ended up making up a couple hundred million in the first weekend on that, Obsession.

Like, that is a return on investment there, folks. Like, a- and m- or y- we all know Disney's not gonna make back the money that it spent on the Mando and Grogu

Hollywood always learns the wrong lesson [00:31:52]

Brian Pritchard: No, and, and, but, but what you get excited about is, is that, like, the execs have always been kinda simple in their thinking, right? And as a fan, you observe these things.

That, like, like, a, a, a, a dumb example to me is how they'll, they'll sort of take whoever won best actor and best actress and, like, let them do, like, whatever and be like, "We're gonna make you a s-..." It's like, it doesn't always work as simply as, as the way you think it does. Or, like, like the way that they sit there and they go like, "Well, you know, like, this, this guy's like collective box office..."

Like, I don't know. Sometimes they're overly simplistic in their thinking, but where I get excited about this is going, "Well, that's cool. They're not gonna know how, what to do with this data, and so they're gonna throw money at, at amateur filmmakers." And that to me is exciting.

Nicky P: Well, exactly. E- oh, exactly.

And, like, that's where I do, once again I get excited is because, yes, Hollywood always learns the wrong lesson. Like, "Oh, hey, we had this one super- Yeah,

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, yeah, that's my point. Exactly...

Nicky P: Superhero movie," so now they pour decades into superhero movies. And then when clearly people are not going to see superhero movies, they're still pouring hundreds of million dollars into these things.

Whereas, yeah, you do hope... W- w- it's, it's sad, it's like with, I think Obsession is the one in particular where you had like one of the, the art director or something on the movie who's complaining because she made, like, I th- let me see, like, between six and eight grand on the movie and it made hundreds of millions of dollars.

And she said, "Well, where's my cut on that?" But it's like, okay, number one, you agreed to what you-

Brian Pritchard: Your cut is leveraging it into an opportunity, considering yourself lucky. Don't be a moron.

Nicky P: Exactly. And, and, and instead of doing the, "Oh, it's, th- this, this whole industry's broken," there was no guarantee that was gonna happen.

And it's not your dime that, that went into leveraging to try and make that happen. Like, somebody, again, it was a good investment for some people, and you took the job because you needed a job.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah. You felt like that trade of your time for that money was fair, then it is what it is, right? Yeah. Right.

Nicky P: And, and mind you, you're attached to that now.

The, the, your investment is that, "Oh, I now have a pedigree that, like, when that next opportunity, like, I can get on a big production and make that money." Like, that's like, you complain about the writers. How many writers in Hollywood have spent decades writing spec scripts that never get picked up? Like, they just write and write and write, and it just never goes anywhere.

Like, that's kind of how that industry works, sadly.

The Boondock Saints documentary and squandering your break [00:34:27]

Brian Pritchard: Dude, I don't remember if we talked about the Boondock Saints documentary on here or not or, or whether it was on here or in life, but- I, I w- I watched that. Like, I, something the one morning, I don't remember what led me to just kind of spontaneously press play, but what an amazing documentary that, that was.

Just as far as exactly what you're describing. I mean, some- somebody who manages to get that break and, like, squanders it to such a wild degree. You know what I mean? That, that it's just, it's, it's horrifying. As, as somebody who's, you know, y- y- y- you, you wish for these things. A- a- again, I was talking to somebody the other day about, about how hard it can be to even give yourself permission, to Be optimistic and hopeful, right?

To allow myself to even like fantasize about things going well is scary, you know? And that's a sad thing to admit, you know what I mean? But, but it, it's a true thing, right? To say that to even let myself fantasize about certain things going well is a vulnerability of, of it not going well, right? And so to see people that actually find themselves in that moment and then, and then their reaction is to go, "Of course, I always knew I was the best," you know what I mean?

Like, like I don't know. It's just irritating.

Is delusional self-belief actually a viable career strategy? [00:35:53]

Nicky P: So I think that there's something de- I, I don't like the word squandered in the case of that guy because I think truly with the guy who created Boondock Saints, he held up his personal ethos and, yeah, that wasn't what Hollywood is going to take and it was, "Look, well, you're never going to work in this town again."

But to me, even, even as that guy, he still managed to get something made. That's actually, that's impressive to me because that is a guy who is a very ostensibly my way or the highway guy, obviously, and he managed to get a movie made in a town that does not like that from anybody. So it's like, yeah, did he squander it?

Maybe a little bit, but he lived out who he is, you know? He just happens to kinda be a prick.

Brian Pritchard: The delusional self-belief part, though, that, that to me wasn't, didn't make that story unique. I've, I've arrived at that conclusion before, you know, that guy's story, right? Where I go, "Okay, that, that, that can be a piece of the puzzle," where being that kind of like egocentric prick, frankly, can be a means to an end in terms of the likelihood that your thing will break through because you're fighting harder than I am.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you're, you're willing to sit there and like burn bridges, piss people off, and you're going, "I don't care. My shit is special. It is that fucking special that I'm kicking this door open" and like I, I, I, respect is, is, feels like almost the wrong word, but like there's an acknowledgement certainly of the, effectiveness of it that can't be denied.

It's, it's sort of undeniable even if I, I sort of go like it, it can't be the only road map. Clearly it's not the only road map, but it, it seems to be one way that works is for somebody to just be so insanely, delusionally confident that their thing is the most important thing in the world.

"Real recognize real" [00:37:52]

Nicky P: I believe the phrase that you're looking for, now you look at is real recognize real

Brian Pritchard: Well, before I forget, dude, A Sound of Thunder, for anybody who's going, "You left that tab open." A Sound of Thunder from a filmmaker I really love. Peter Hyams, even as a guy who's experimented with special effects, he made, Stay Tuned and Timecop, which are both beloved effects-driven blockbusters from my, my, my youth.

I love those movies. A Sound of Thunder in, from 2005, right? Is, looks like this horrible, horrible amateur thing where like, yeah, they have some time travel thing and they go back to like dinosaur times, but you're only allowed to walk on the path when you're in time travel mode. And, and the one guy like takes a step off of it and, and it's that butterfly effect sort of thing where like now when they come back to the regular world, because of that footprint, now there's like- Half human, half bat like creatures in, in the modern world that they return to.

And like these waves keep coming of like these evolutionary waves. Like the concept, like on paper I, I bet it reads well.

A Sound of Thunder and Peter Hyams' effects fumble [00:39:16]

Nicky P: It sounds really awesome. I wanna watch this movie now.

Brian Pritchard: I know, but, but they f- they fumbled the, the, the special effects look like the worst kind of like early '90s like computer game special effects, right?

And, and, and, and it just wrecks it. It, it wrecks everything.

Nicky P: It's always, what's always fun is to take my 12-year-old, by the way, and like go through and show her the video games from our childhood. It's like, oh my God, Aron, you would not believe how much we loved these graphics. These things were cutting edge.

And it's like, you know, f- eight, eight bit freaking video graphics and stuff, 16 bits.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah. Some, some of it holds up better than others. Some of it is in... I, I definitely, I, you know, I, I at one point in my adult life went and bought the, there's a system called the FC Twin, which is like a generic, plays, NES and SNES, the, the, those first two console game systems, games.

And, anyway, like yeah, I went down that nostalgia rabbit hole where I was like, I'd be at the exchange and I'd be like, "Oh man, Rad Racer," you know for the like Nintendo. And it's just like I can't believe I, I spent hours and hours like playing this. Like I, I, you know, yeah, it's, it's just the most boring, awful game in the world.

Nostalgia rabbit holes: NES games that do not hold up [00:40:36]

Nicky P: You skitchin'.

Brian Pritchard: I don't

Nicky P: Know that. The game where you like, you, you're a, a ro- a rollerblader who like grabs a hold of like the bumpers of cars to like get going.

Brian Pritchard: Wow. Uh.

Nicky P: Mm-mm. Yeah. There's some ridiculous things we played back in the '90s, folks. Anyways, that has been, I think, a, another wonderful entrant into the canon of We Came For Celluloid.

Never know what we're gonna talk about. We could've been talking about all kinds of, you know, related to the tour type stuff, but instead we just have a random talk about special effects and, Michael Bolton. So you never know. It's a grab bag, folks. I- if you'd like to direct more what we talk about, you can always, you know, comment and, reach out to us.

We may or may not listen, but we'd love to hear the feedback. So head on over to pumarocks.com. Add yourself up to the mailing list, and, you know, if you're interested in being a guest, you're a touring band or something that wants to get out here in Cleveland, by all means reach out. Otherwise, I think you should go and have a good day.

Wrap-up: grab bag forever, pumarocks.com [00:41:43]

Brian Pritchard: And we're turning it into music and podcast for you