Intro: Doug Liman's Go [00:00:00]

Nicky P: Welcome once again, everyone, to another episode of We Came From Celluloid. I am Nicky P here, as always, on this celestial plane, not to be confused with the other celestial plane. But I needed to be here 'cause this is the one that Brian is on. Mr. Pritchard, how are you doing today?

Brian Pritchard: Hey, Ben. Another day of opportunity and excitement awaits. So I'm good. I was watching some special edition bonus feature deleted scenes from the movie Go, Doug Liman's Go from the '90s. You familiar? You a fan?

Nicky P: I'm gonna be honest, I don't know that I've ever watched the movie. I know of it, obviously. I'm very of that era. I think that movie kind of exists in this weird before-I-cared-about-such-types-of-films place. I know my one buddy in college is a huge, huge fan of it, and by virtue of him liking it, it was a pretty good indicator that I wouldn't, taste-wise.

Too Cool for the Room: The '90s Talkie Crime Wave [00:01:15]

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, I was trying to explain to Ben how... 'cause even on the back of this particular release, they sort of acknowledge the place-in-time nature of it. And I think it worked beyond nostalgia. There were some things at the time I remember more than others. Like, there's a title that I always remember, Things to Do in Denver Before You're Dead, where it's already too verbose, you know what I mean? Too cool for the room even before you've pressed play. Pulp Fiction and Tarantino's success obviously, and in a way Kevin Smith's success, I think launched this period of talkie crime pictures, you know what I mean? The pop culture references, the intertwining storylines, the big sprawling casts. Two Days in the Valley is another one that I remember really wanting to like. The previews were so cool. I saw it in theaters. It was stylish, but it still just kinda didn't have something. But anyway, I always liked this one. I always thought Go was pretty solid. I remember I really liked Swingers when it came out, and this was the follow-up from that guy, and I was watching his trajectory to see what would happen, you know? And he ended up having a pretty bizarre career, because he went on not too long after this and made The Bourne Identity, right? Which sorta changed his whole trajectory away from indie film into action man.

Doug Liman, Swingers, and Made [00:03:15]

Nicky P: And so I'm presuming we're talking director here, right?

Brian Pritchard: That's true. The guy, Doug Liman, who directed it. Swingers, low-budget success, into Go, low-budget success.

Nicky P: Well, no, that's what I'm getting at. I guess I've never associated Swingers with anybody but, what's his name? Vince Vaughn and Jon Favreau.

Brian Pritchard: Well, except that, again, it comes at a time where this idea of auteur cinema and directors being household names was really kind of humming along.

Nicky P: Yeah, the movie I always pair up is Made when I'm thinking of Swingers. The natural—

Brian Pritchard: Well, except those two were like 10 years apart, you know what I mean? By the time Made had come out, it was almost itself like a nostalgic reach back. And I remember Made didn't work for me in the same way. Those two, I don't know, somehow weren't capturing their young-man exuberance in quite the same way. But—

Nicky P: Oh, I didn't think that was what Made was about. I thought Made was, I guess, I wouldn't say a reluctant dad, but kind of just a very messed-up family movie. And the fact, like, a guy ends up taking on a...

Brian Pritchard: Well, and like—

When Marketing Doesn't Know What It's Got: Digger [00:05:00]

Nicky P: I mean, is that a thread to pull on? The number of times that marketers have completely ruined a movie 'cause they didn't understand what the hell they had?

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, it'll be interesting... I'm very curious to see Digger, the new Tom Cruise movie that's coming out this weekend. And that's another one where I've been watching the marketing and going, "Okay, this could mean something positive that the sales team doesn't have a clue what to do with it."

Nicky P: I mean, it looks like it's got a Vanilla Sky kind of quality, and I say that just because it's Tom Cruise doing what appears to be wildly outlandish.

Brian Pritchard: I just keep thinking Dr. Strangelove, dude. Vanilla Sky was a deadly serious drama, you know? This feels like it's trying to be Dr. Strangelove. It's trying to be smart and clever and winking at the audience and intentionally over the top. And that, to me, is a tone that very few hit with any degree of success. I'm thinking of the way the Coen brothers get to a level of heightened reality and surrealism, especially when they steer more towards the comedy of The Hudsucker Proxy or Intolerable Cruelty or Raising Arizona. There's a sort of manic energy, like a Warner Brothers cartoon, you know what I mean? Raising Arizona in particular, right? That energy of Roadrunner and Coyote kind of vibes. Seeing filmmakers try to do that always makes me pretty nervous that it's gonna be a shit show, so we'll see.

Nicky P: Well, if you give anybody the capacity, certainly as an actor, to pull that off, you know, Tom Cruise is the guy you get.

Tropic Thunder and Tom Cruise Cutting Loose [00:07:15]

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, I do like him. I do like him. You know, Tropic Thunder isn't a favorite of mine the way it is for many. And again, that even hit at a time where Zoolander was an all-time favorite. I still love Zoolander, but it's not Ben Stiller's best work in front of or behind the camera. Nobody involved in Tropic Thunder is doing their best work. I mean, Tom Cruise's performance is exciting because he was such a brand, and the idea of him cutting loose and being foul-mouthed and inappropriate — there was something really, really appealing just about seeing him be willing to be silly, I guess, in that way. But yeah, either way, I'm gonna go see it. I'm eager to see it. There's that idea once again with directors of going, the storyteller behind Birdman and The Revenant certainly shouldn't be dismissed as being capable of turning in incredible work. So we'll see, we'll see. Does the marketing team not know what to do with a masterpiece? Or is it the mess that it appears to be? I don't know.

Horror Binge: She Loved Blossoms More [00:09:00]

Nicky P: In my experience, marketing teams rarely know what to do with the films they've got because, you know, that whole artist's lens just naturally fights the marketer's lens in some ways. Talking movies, I started early this year, but did start my normal horror movie binge. Nothing formal this year. I'm not keeping track, even, just kind of trying to tick things off the boxes on my long list. And I started with this wild movie the other day, She Loved Blossoms More. And I don't know that it's necessarily even a horror movie. What that thing was, I couldn't quite tell you. It had some pretty wild body horror in it, for sure. But it's this Russian movie, I think, about three brothers continuing their father's quest to bring their mother back, like, in a time machine from the past, but it ends up being some interdimensional transport device. We'll just say lots of weird body-horror-y kind of things take place in the process of them sending and bringing people from wherever they go in the closet — like a wardrobe, we'll call it. It looks like a wardrobe from my approach, the wardrobe that they're using as a time machine. Wow, is it bananas in so many ways, but certainly entertaining. I was fairly captivated for the time that it was on screen, just wondering where they were gonna go with it. Like, okay, that's interesting.

Brian Pritchard: A good time machine story can definitely pull me in. Have you ever seen Timecrimes?

Nicky P: Oh, yeah.

Brian Pritchard: Where the guy's got the, like, fucking bandages.

Nicky P: That's the thing, though. Ostensibly, I don't know that this was actually a time machine movie. Part of it is the language barrier — none of it's in English, so you're watching a translation, and for all I know... 'cause nobody actually went back or forward in time, as far as I could tell. Even the one character in the movie kind of describes it — he's talking to his dad, who's bankrolling these kids, and he's like, "Your thing was a time machine. I've made it more." And it's just that. I don't know. It almost feels like the marketing department screwed up on that one too. Like, guys, you really gotta pay attention to what these movies these directors are making, 'cause that's not the movie I watched, for certain.

Willy's Wonderland: Nic Cage Never Says a Word [00:12:15]

Nicky P: And then after that one, I started another one last night — actually it was a couple last night. Willy's Wonderland, which is Nicolas Cage doing the most blatant knockoff of Five Nights at Freddy's as a movie that has ever been. Oh my God, it is hilarious how badly they ripped that movie off. But you're just watching Nicolas Cage fight animatronic robots in, like, a Chuck E. Cheese that he's locked into overnight so that he can get his tires fixed on his car.

Brian Pritchard: So is it as great as that description suggests? Or is it on the fucking lazy side?

Nicky P: Well, in that description, I missed probably the most important part of the movie. Nary a word does he speak. It is completely — I don't even know why. Literally all his character does — oh, he's almost oblivious to what's going on around him. He literally does clean this place up while he's there. As the robots he kills get oil and shit everywhere, he cleans it up every time, so he almost kinda cleans this place a bunch of times. Even knowing full well that they planned on him dying in here, he still does what he's expected to do. But there's this weird — he kills a robot, and then does some cleaning, and then all of a sudden his watch'll go off, and you'll watch him walk to the fridge, crush an energy drink, play some pinball, and then go kill another animatronic guy. And it kinda rinses and repeats this the whole movie, and without him ever saying a single word, you're like, "What is going on with this? Why? Is he mute?" And there are actual points in there, after the halfway mark, where he could be interacting with other people in the room, and he does, but he still never says a goddamn word. Ends up driving off into the sunset with one of the other characters at the finale, and still — the only exchange is he hands her an energy drink. There's never any dialogue out of that character, and it's hilarious, I think in only a way that Nicolas Cage could pull off. Just like, "Okay."

Brian Pritchard: Well, and it almost makes me wonder if that was the screenplay or if that was Nic Cage, you know what I mean? Did he come into a screenplay that had dialogue and go, "I'll do the part, but I've got an idea. I know who this guy is. This guy doesn't say anything."

Nicky P: Or even, is it one of those things where he's like, "Well, I like the project, but the minute I say a word, I'm too expensive for the production, so is there any way we can make the character mute so that you can afford to have me on?" 'Cause I could see Nicolas Cage pulling something like that, too. He's like, "Well, I wanna do it, but, you know, contracts and union rules," and it just seemed ridiculous to—

Brian Pritchard: I appreciate that. I do think he's still finding things inside any given project that give him a reason to show up and perform every day.

Nic Cage's Volume, Mandy, and Beyond the Black Rainbow [00:16:00]

Nicky P: Well, the one thing I will give him is that, dude, his volume has never, ever declined. He's done his acting, he's had his big movies, certainly throughout the '90s. But man, ever since the 2000s, it's almost like anything he can get his hands on, he'll try it. For the better or the worse. They're not always gems, but there's always something interesting going on in most of the stuff he takes on. Think what you will about Mandy, but Mandy is so much fun. I don't know that it's actually a good movie, it's just there's something about it that makes it so you can't turn away, maybe.

Brian Pritchard: No, that movie actually is on a very, very short list. I think it's that movie, Lobster, and Clerks were the couple of movies that I watched two or three times within the first 48, 72 hours upon seeing it, that I was like, "I need to get back in there," you know? Yeah, I watched Mandy a bunch the week it came out, and I've seen it a few times since. I actually just brought it down recently, 'cause sometimes I'll find myself watching a few things from a performer or director and then decide, "Well, I guess that's a sign to go revisit the catalog." I mean, Nic Cage is an interesting one, 'cause as a completist, I'm not even interested in trying to make some mission out of actually seeing everything the guy's made. That's too much, and I imagine at this point, because of how prolific he's been — fuck, I mean, a lot of them are terrible, you know? I expected not worth the time. But in any given year where he's making like four or five pictures, it does seem like there's always at least something outstanding that comes from the effort too, which is interesting.

Nicky P: If I remember correctly, isn't Mandy from the same people that made Beyond the Black Rainbow?

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, which I never went back to see. I know the name because of that question, right? Of going, "Whoa, what else did these folks do?" So I didn't end up going back—

Nicky P: That one doesn't strike me as your cup of tea, frankly. It's a stylish movie and certainly is paying homage to a bygone era of Hollywood as far as visuals go. But it was definitely a different kind of story than, say, Mandy was. I unfortunately can't watch Mandy, because it'd have to be the very middle of the night when Liz is sleeping. And I'm more of a let's-find-out-the-new-adventure than rehash-some-old-adventure kind of thing. I know people tell you you're supposed to watch the same things over and over again, but I like the dopamine hit of the new thing.

The Benefit of the Doubt: Brazil and Baron Munchausen [00:19:30]

Brian Pritchard: Well, it's interesting. Yeah, I definitely do too. I don't think I'm gonna stop seeking out new things. I know I've brought up some version of this a few times, but I do keep thinking about my film collection, and the sense in which I'm less and less interested in giving certain things the same benefit of the doubt as far as repeat viewings, that for many years I tried to. To me, the signature example that really set this mindset and journey was Bordello of Blood, which we've discussed probably offline and online. But The Adventures of Baron Munchausen was another one that jumped out at me. I was putting Brazil back on the shelf, which even with its most recent watch, I was going, "Yeah, I could probably wait a little longer." It still feels like something that I've watched too many times to have something fresh come away from it right now. But that's such an all-time favorite masterpiece that I would never dream of permanently putting it away. Baron Munchausen, though, by comparison — I've never liked it, and because I love Terry Gilliam so much, and because different people or articles will sit there and be like, "Don't sleep on Baron Munchausen," you know what I mean? There's people who have their hot takes, personal preferences on a thing. So there's certain films where I keep coming back, trying to see what did the filmmaker find exciting inside this material? What do other fans of this filmmaker who I love find exciting inside this material? But the idea of going, yeah, the older I get, the more precious time feels, the less interested I am in some weird self-imposed... I guess some part of me, when I've picked an artist and elevated them into favorite status, doesn't want them to make any mistakes, doesn't want them to have any misses in their catalog, musically, filmmaking, or otherwise. When I sort of give over to an artist and go, "No, they're one of my special, special people that I've got this rapport with" — you know, this one-sided rapport — you don't wanna have something show up and negate that decision and be like, "But this part doesn't jive with me at all." Yeah, I don't know. Terry Gilliam has this whimsical side that works in most of his stories for me really well. But Baron Munchausen, I just don't like it.

Tideland and Watching an Artist Learn Their Craft [00:23:00]

Nicky P: Well, I find it amusing that you'd say whimsical, 'cause then I think Tideland, which is an incredibly depressing film, yet somehow does manage to walk the line of whimsical while being incredibly depressing.

Brian Pritchard: You're right. I love Tideland, and again, that one hits the right balance to me of taking the signature ingredients that define Terry Gilliam and presenting something that I find really moving and unique, a signature experience of what he does and what he is as a filmmaker. And Baron Munchausen is also that. I just don't happen to like the story that he's telling, or find it moving or find it interesting or find it funny. And so the best I can say for it is moments of technical achievement. Which, when you're watching the development of an artist, it is interesting to watch them learn their craft film after film. Ben showed me the new trailer for a Danny Boyle movie called Ink, and he was pointing out a shot that he really liked from inside that trailer, and I was going, "Yeah, that's the iPhone-like rig that he built for 28 Years Later." He was just using it in a different context in this quick moment in the trailer. It was two characters at a dinner table kind of scene, around a small two-seater. But it used this same cool pivot technique. It's always interesting when you see filmmakers developing their visual language and their themes as a storyteller.

Telling the Same Story Over and Over [00:25:00]

Brian Pritchard: It's like musicians and filmmakers and authors — sometimes it does feel like some of the best ones even are telling the same story over and over again, you know? And I don't mind that either. There's certain themes or ideas that they're clearly attracted to, and in a way you almost don't want them to become so self-aware of their choices or their ideas. I always loved that about Lynch, that he was so reluctant to get caught up in over-explaining the meaning behind everything. You almost don't want great artists to get so in their head, second-guessing their choices, that they can't keep making stuff. I don't know.

Cronenberg: Relentlessly Bleak [00:26:00]

Nicky P: Well, Nicky, as long as you can be okay with the choices that I'm making. Another movie — I don't know if you've ever actually talked about it — were you a big fan of Naked Lunch?

Brian Pritchard: No. And Cronenberg in general as a filmmaker, I've tried to revisit even recently, and there was a time where I had a huge Cronenberg section on my shelf. But yeah, he's another one where, God, even pre-Bordello of Blood, there was sort of an unofficial sense of going, "For the most part, I don't really like these movies." I love The Fly. Jeff Goldblum's The Fly is an all-timer that somehow I've let like 10 years go by without revisiting, and I'm dying to revisit The Fly.

Nicky P: Well, I'm almost wondering, with Cronenberg and you, if it's just... like with the Terry Gilliams, you said there's a natural whimsicalness to the filmmaking, where Cronenberg is not a natural whimsicalness. Cronenberg is dark, and he is often focusing on, we'll just say, perhaps negative emotions and not pleasant things happening to characters for a whole host of reasons. And so I can see that just not appealing to your soul, if anything else. Just, I don't know, man. Just not for me, you know?

Brian Pritchard: That's an interesting take, the relentlessly bleak nature of his work. Like Dead Ringers is a movie where Jeremy Irons — and just watching anybody do dual characters — there's some reasons to go back and watch Dead Ringers again, but it's a relentlessly ugly and depressing movie. As is Crash, as is so much of his work. eXistenZ is one that I used to watch and share with people. I watched eXistenZ fairly recently and it's like, you know, this holds up okay.

History of Violence, Eastern Promises, and Robert Pattinson's Ask [00:28:15]

Brian Pritchard: But yeah, I watched History of Violence again recently. That held up pretty well for me. I haven't watched Eastern Promises in a minute. I remember those two felt like an interesting stage in his development, because they definitely weren't body horror movies. History of Violence and Eastern Promises felt like these inverse companion pieces, right? Two pieces of a whole that examined an evil man pretending to be good, and then a good man pretending to be evil. It was these two halves of a coin that let Viggo Mortensen come in and play in some fun and interesting ways. And that became part of his thing, I suppose, later in life — he clearly wants to keep working, and there's actors that wanna work with him. I remember one of the first things Robert Pattinson did when he was branching off from Twilight and trying to establish himself as a serious actor and not just the twinkly vampire — he immediately went and told David Cronenberg, "Whatever you wanna do, put me in it." And that's a cool thing to do. I don't remember especially liking the movies. One of 'em I don't even know that I finished — it was just him driving around in the back of a limousine the whole time or something. But I respect that. It always makes me happy when a young up-and-comer helps a filmmaker get financing, frankly.

Gilliam, Depp, and The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus [00:30:00]

Brian Pritchard: And you see that with Gilliam too, man. God, one of my favorite movies related to Terry Gilliam that he didn't make was the documentary about him failing to make the Don Quixote movie. Did you ever see that, The Man From La Mancha?

Nicky P: That's a super interesting documentary. Yeah.

Brian Pritchard: Yep. But again, I do come away in part from that movie, especially at that time, just going, "Man, Johnny Depp loves this guy, and is really trying to leverage his star power in order to help bring this dream to life." And the final Heath Ledger movie that they made—

Nicky P: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah. And—

Nicky P: I'm a big fan. Mr. Nick's a great character...

Brian Pritchard: Heath Ledger was in the middle of doing that same thing, and then obviously when he died they brought more people in. You said you're not a big fan, or you are?

Nicky P: Oh, no, huge fan of that movie. Tom Waits as the devil is the funniest thing in the world.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, me too. I'm embarrassed that I was struggling to even remember the name, 'cause that's one that I've gone back to a lot. I love Andrew Garfield in that movie. It's great.

Nicky P: Well, the thing — I mean, it's just a technical choice for a real-world problem that they managed to pull off, and that is super interesting to me. Like, hey, our actor died in the middle of it, and it feels like you're letting his legacy down to not finish the movie. And so to get a bunch of serious A-list actors to all come in and play the same character, and add just some whimsical element to explain away why different characters are playing the same guy, was just such a choice, man.

Brian Pritchard: Well, and some of it seemed like it was quite lucky, in that they had a story where it had this magic mirror, and they'd filmed all the stuff that took place in the real world in a way that enabled his transformation in the magic mirror to be explained, you know what I mean? As this extra thing.

Come On Board: Heath Ledger's Open House [00:32:45]

Brian Pritchard: But I saw a great Heath Ledger documentary too, and it was person after person after person talking about how, with his breakout success, he owned a house in Los Angeles that ended up being home base for Cate Blanchett and Guy Pearce and Naomi Watts and all this — the whole Australian crew that was trying to come over and make it — and how he hosted and just let people live at his place while they were auditioning and getting established. And I just think it's cool when people leave that trail of breadcrumbs. 'Cause there's another version of that where people get some degree of power and they start circling the wagons and going, "All right, we gotta shore up what we have. Now that I'm here, no one else can have it," you know? And then there's this other thing, which is this open-arms sense of going, "My ship is beautiful. I've got all the holes plugged. Come on board. Come on board and let's go for a ride." And I think that that's cool, and I wish I can do that for other people in small ways or large ways. It's something I really, really want out of my life, to be able to reach out to people that are coming up behind you and pull them up, pull them along.

Jonah Hill's Roommate Break [00:34:15]

Nicky P: It's such a broader story, because dude, I can't tell you how many times... I was watching the short documentary this past week about one of my favorite movies, Accepted, where Justin Long goes and founds a college. But Jonah Hill — it's one of his first movies, and you find out that he's only in that movie because he was Justin Long's roommate and he kind of pressured them into auditioning him. He was not even on the radar, but because he happened to be a roommate with somebody. Then you think about how he factors in with the whole Seth Rogen crew and all that, and it's interesting, the people that have roles because they were just friends with so-and-so. Or just the groups of people that exist in Hollywood because they're friends — "We're not going without them," that kind of thing, it feels like.

So-and-So and Sons: Nepotism, Trust, and Who You Vouch For [00:35:15]

Brian Pritchard: Sure, sure. And none of that is meant to negate people's talent. Again, when people get this angry resentment, sort of nepo-baby hostility — drive around any town in the country, probably in the world, but let's leave it here in the States. Within five minutes you'll see a something-and-Sons establishment. I guarantee it. You know what I mean? So-and-So and Sons, the Primanti Brothers, you know what I'm saying? It's a world where — why? Isn't this shocking? People stick together. Even fundamental tribalism, but yeah, people tend to get involved in the family business one way or another, or go with their friends.

Nicky P: Well, I mean, as much as people wanna complain about it, it's like, who are you going to vouch for? Joe Schmo that you don't know anything about, or the people that you know and have history with? To me, it's not even insulting to think, "Oh, you terrible people, not looking out for the greater of humanity." Well, no, you are looking out for the greater of humanity by having trust and faith in the people around you that you actually can vet. And if you start putting crappy people in positions just because they're related to you, sure, different scenario. But that's not usually how it works. It's usually you know people and you wanna do good for them, and they're good people, too.

Brian Pritchard: Well, both sides of that coin happen in every industry, in every scenario, right? Somebody comes in who's unqualified because they're a family member or a friend — that happens in every industry and every scenario as well. And there's a world where, when you look at something like the entertainment industry, there's only so many job openings to be filled at any given time. Only so many leading-actor players at any given time. I do understand a world where somebody without any connections is going, "Oh, cool, so this whole new generation, 50% of them are the children of the last generation. Good for me. I guess that makes my job harder." I can see how it's discouraging in a certain way, to feel like it's gonna make it harder to get a foot in the door. But again, isn't that kinda true everywhere too? You know?

Nicky P: See, but it's only true if you don't understand that that's the way it has always been, like you said, in all industries. The music industry — follow it back, it just always was that way. And—

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, if I wanna become the first in my family to become an anything — an auto mechanic, a lawyer — being the first to do a thing inside a family or a tribe of people requires some fucking effort. You know what I mean? A unique level of effort.

Nicky P: Yes. And it's not impossible, because number one, there's nothing stopping you from going and becoming friends with Tom Hanks's son.

Brian Pritchard: Especially Chet, you know? Yeah. We could find Chet.

Nicky P: You could have taken steps in your life to be in the place. That's the big thing. It's like, oh, you complain 'cause you still live here in Ohio and you're not a famous actor. Well, you did none of the things that would've helped you become a famous actor, like moving to where famous actors are and becoming part of that world. So yeah, my sympathy's kinda only so deep.

Viggo Mortensen and How Men Age in Hollywood [00:39:00]

Nicky P: I'm gonna note this, 'cause we're gonna have to have an episode on this, but we're already running long. We brought up Viggo Mortensen earlier, and we always talk a lot — it's always a conversation about how women age in Hollywood and how that's treated and perceived. But I don't think it's without being able to talk about how men age and are perceived in Hollywood. And Viggo Mortensen is one of those ones that really stands out. 'Cause Viggo is probably, in many ways, most known, I think, for being the pretty guy in the Lord of the Rings movies, one of them. He's got that haunted beauty or whatever it is. And to go on and look at the stuff that he's done since then, as he's gotten older and perhaps he's not the pretty man that he used to be — he's got an edge to him. I think in particular him working in that movie, the Green Book, that I really enjoyed. He's playing kind of a chubby, racist Italian guy. And the idea is, when those opportunities change, it feels like there's something to be said in there. "Hey, you don't get to be the pretty guy anymore. You gotta be the squidgy guy." And maybe it's cool that there are those roles for those men, but it's certainly something to think about when you're talking about how the industry changes for people as they age.

Brian Pritchard: No doubt. It's curious to see how people continue to find their place inside it, and have either the sense to hang on too tight to what used to be, or, you know what I'm saying? Or you can just embrace what is and keep moving. But yeah, I hear you.

Outro [00:41:15]

Nicky P: All right, folks. Well, thank you for hanging out with us again this week. We shall be back. Head on over to pumarocks.com, check out what's going on with the band. Have a look at wecamefromcelluloid.com and see what else is going on in the podcast world. We got some fun guests coming up here, and we're excited to introduce you to some new music, maybe some new movies, maybe a new way of life. We came from celluloid.