Intro & Devs — Alex Garland's Miniseries — [00:00:00]

Nicky P: Welcome everyone to another episode of We Came From Celluloid. I am Nicky P., here with the grand master, the wizard, the agitator, Mr. Brian Pritchard. How are we doing there, Mr. Brian?

Brian Pritchard: Fantastic, man. Grateful to be here. Thrilled to be alive. I had a lovely morning already — I watched the second-to-last episode of Devs with my son, his first time cycling through it. I believe this is my maybe fourth viewing of that charming series.

Nicky P: So you mentioned this the other day when we were talking. What exactly is this? I'm assuming from the name it's a computer programmer show.

Brian Pritchard: It is a miniseries from Alex Garland, who I've enjoyed and followed as a writer as much as anything else. Guy started working with Danny Boyle as I was following his career, 'cause I've been a fan of his since Shallow Grave. And Alex Garland came into the picture when Danny Boyle adapted his book, The Beach, and then he started doing original work for Danny Boyle, and then sort of spun off to become his own entity, and in that, he made this miniseries. So aside from his features and his books, there is this one miniseries, Devs, which is eight hour-long episodes, and has some faces I really like. Nick Offerman, of course, but Zach Grenier — it's funny, I re-watched Fight Club recently, which prompted some of our conversation last week. The boss, Edward Norton's boss in Fight Club, a relatively small but memorable role. I've seen him as one of the leads in a couple shows I've watched multiple times — ironically both miniseries, one being this, the other being Brain Dead, sort of a Body Snatchers-esque comedy set in the world of DC politics. And has Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who I really like from a bunch of stuff.

Nicky P: Mary Elizabeth Winstead is Ramona Flowers, right?

Brian Pritchard: That's right. Yeah, absolutely.

Nicky P: For the Scott Pilgrim fans out there.

Brian Pritchard: Yep. And season three of Fargo is another miniseries of sorts that she did. I'm making that distinction 'cause you've got those anthology shows like Fargo or American Horror Story that are under the banner of that brand, but each season is its own arc with a beginning, middle, and end not necessarily meant to connect to the others. Devs was never meant to go on beyond the eight episodes it had — a true miniseries in that respect, whereas Brain Dead, you get the sense they were maybe gonna continue had it been more successful. That was an Amazon Prime original, and like a lot of content creators, whether or not the corporate entity kept investing in the thing became a factor.

The Ephemera Problem — What Streaming Erases — [00:04:00]

Brian Pritchard: I'm jumping around, but that's part of what's interesting looking at the Roadrunner and Coyote movie out right now, and headlines like "it's already made more money in theaters than—"

Nicky P: Coyote v. ACME, I believe it's called.

Brian Pritchard: Right. I hope to catch that while it's out. I was bummed out to see any sort of trending in that direction, with Netflix and Warner Brothers and other companies pulling content out and taking it as a tax write-off — just thinking about how much of a bummer that is for people who spend their time working on things, and then there's no way to access it anymore. Because the streamers don't necessarily put out physical copies of things, there's a whole world of set designers, makeup artists, and wardrobe professionals who are like, "Damn, I can't watch my work anymore." That thing that I made is just gone. Let alone the actors and directors, writers — everybody.

Nicky P: Well, sometimes they don't all get made to be great, unfortunately.

Brian Pritchard: Great is subjective, right? It's the idea — and this is tricky for all of us to swallow — of how much of our work ends up being ephemera that gets lost in time, and where and when can any of us hope for some degree of permanence? I remember when we studied Shakespeare, some footnote being like, "They don't know for sure that every single thing attributed to Shakespeare was even written by the guy."

Nicky P: Oh, there's no way of knowing.

Brian Pritchard: So that name came to mind — now there's a guy who's had lasting impact, right? But there's only a handful of examples where some painters, some artists, have had the opportunity to reach across time like that. It's such a fantasy of mine to imagine Puma Thurman tunes being listened to and enjoyed, soundtracking a moment in somebody's life in the year 2615 or whatever — something down the road from now. Will there still be a planet in 600 years? Will there still be music and movies being made? And will any of the old stuff have survived? And who will survive, and what will become of them? Isn't that part of Plan 9 From Outer Space?

Paramount+, Scorpion, and the Physical Media Business Case — [00:07:00]

Nicky P: It's always a good thought. And it's always kind of funny as to what stays and what goes. I recently got a bug up my butt and decided to get a subscription to Paramount+ for a little bit. I think it was Tulsa King I wanted to watch, and the third season looked like it was about to take an arc I don't care to follow right now. So what else is on this subscription service? I started watching Scorpion, which I've never watched before — your standard CBS procedural about a group of geniuses who solve crimes for the government. Been enjoying that one. Anytime you get super smart people doing super smart stuff, that's always a good thing for me. I've got one more episode of this season of Reacher. And I found it interesting that Amazon's doing a spinoff of Reacher — apparently it's doing well, 'cause they have a Neagley show coming out, one of the characters from the first couple seasons of Reacher. So I'm like, "Oh, interesting, they're getting smarter about this in some ways." What's funny is you bring up the whole physical media thing, and it's just so stupid that more of these companies don't do physical media, because there's still definitely a market for it. I can't tell you how many shows I can't find on DVD or Blu-ray that I could watch whenever I want. By the way, I'd still primarily watch it on a streaming network if it's available — it's just, I want to watch it also when it's not on a streaming network, and I'm willing to pay to do that. They're not bright businesses, most of these people, clearly.

The Psychology of Owning What You Paid For — [00:10:00]

Brian Pritchard: You know, and it's funny, because part of the relationship with it is actually not even necessarily lofty. I'll just speak for myself — part of it is actually about having bought something or spent money on something. There's an extra layer of going, "Well, now I want to really enjoy it," whether that's the tendency to be part of the clean plate club, or when I do buy movies, sitting there like, "I'm gonna watch every bonus feature, I'm gonna listen to all the commentary tracks." This is a thing I invested in, and I'm going to squeeze everything out of it. It's funny — I bought my own leads at work this week, which is a big step. And I was talking yesterday about how weird it is — there's no reason that should change the energy in the room so much for me, but I was noticing that it was. Just clocking that with interest — like, "What the fuck is this?" Why is it that at the moment I'm spending my own money on this exact same process, it's somehow different?

Nicky P: From a variety of psychological stances, there's a ton of reasons why that is 100% different. But, you know.

Brian Pritchard: No, I'm not trying to be naive in that respect, so much as maybe an element of surprise — and I'll give a stronger word to it, somewhat disappointment — where I like to think of myself as not overly money-motivated. There's times I think, "Dude, you better keep that in check." Part of the journey I've been on, professionally and therefore personally, is around just increased money consciousness. But in the world of being a collector, I haven't had some sense of an overlay of going, "I better get my—" A return on investment isn't important to me when I collect movies. A return on investment isn't important to me when I buy studio time or musical equipment. There are things I've had a relationship with where, for one reason or another, I've had to or been willing to move past that notion of a strict consumer relationship — of going, "I have to clearly understand how this money comes back in this way."

Return on Investment Isn't What You Think It Is — [00:13:00]

Nicky P: So, this is where we're getting into the realm of what's actually linguistics now. People don't understand the words they're using most of the time. When you say "return on investment," it's what I think of people who use the word "capitalism," or — what's the one I love so much — I got into an argument with a friend whose family is part of an electric co-op, and it was all about the profits of the co-op. I'm like, the profit of the co-op is the electricity you all walk away with. In the same vein, when you're talking about your return on investment — you're just divorcing it from the financial. Your return on investment is the quality product you get to listen to and put in your catalog at the end of it. 'Cause I promise you, if you went in the studio and what you listen to is dog shit, you're not gonna feel the same way coming back. But what you're looking for is the positive version of it.

Brian Pritchard: No, but broadly speaking, for the sake of simplicity, I'm talking about an emotional exchange — a very simple emotional exchange. Return on investment to me, for whatever official definition you want to apply, is very simple. It's the feeling of, did I get value out of this? So of course I understand that return on investment can be the experience. And when you're talking concerts or fine dining or lots of things people spend money on, you're going, "Did I get value out of this?" It's interesting how it can be a sliding scale. And just to keep it back to collecting — I do notice that when I buy things in digital-only format, I don't appreciate them in the same way. I guess I was realizing, in the business sense, that at the moment I'm buying these for myself, I'm appreciating it in a different way, or there's a different sense of pressure or need to get something else out of it. But with certain exchanges, I go in with my eyes open, and it doesn't — some artificial pressure of getting value is involved.

Nicky P: It could just be as simple as — nobody wants to go to work for somebody and do a bad job. We're gonna want to do the best job we can.

Brian Pritchard: Sure. Yeah.

Nicky P: That being said, when you pull all the financial into your own realm and everything is you, you no longer want to do the good thing — you have to do the good job, because not doing a good job is not an option. It's just a different math equation. Like you said, back to the studio time thing — you clearly value things in that, like, we don't pay for studio time. We go to Max to do it, because the return on investment for not having to pay for it, versus getting to record it with a friend, makes more sense when it's all said and done. Otherwise you could just continue sitting in a studio throwing money at it. Now, does that equation change maybe someday when Max is too busy to record, and it's just easier to set this up in a studio, have him do it real quick, bang it out, and get it sent to you? The equation changes all the time for different reasons.

The James Principle: Choosing Not to Know — [00:17:00]

Brian Pritchard: Even where you would learn the skill — to be dependent on anybody else for anything, where and when do I choose to do that? Every time our friend James comes over — I'll laugh about it — if I bring him over to fix something, I feel uncomfortable in part because of the close personal relationship, just having him working in my basement while I keep watching TV in the living room. So there's this tendency to want to be around the work, and yet I'm not interested in the work or knowing about the work. I'm just using him as an example — it wouldn't have to be any technician performing work in and around the home. I feel like this is a somewhat universal experience, where they're talking to you about, "Well, of course what I'm doing here is blah, blah, blah," and I'm immediately sitting there going, "Yeah, yeah, yeah — if I wanted to know about that, you wouldn't be here." If that was a thing that interested me, I would have learned it and you wouldn't be here. Because you're here, please realize I don't wanna know, I don't wanna talk about it, and I don't wanna know about it. The technical part of recording irritates me. I don't wanna watch people set up microphones, I don't wanna be part of testing. I'm a big baby that way, you know?

Nicky P: It's funny — I've actually had James over to do some plumbing work for me, because I'm a pretty handy guy, I do my own stuff. But I do have a very strong no-plumbing rule that James was very aware of when I paid him to come over here and fix some things last winter. But no — pipes aren't me, bro. I'll work on live electric all day, but pipes, nah, just take my money. The less I know or deal with it, the better.

Devil's Night Show and the December Tour — [00:19:00]

Nicky P: So I was talking to our boy over at the Maple Grove yesterday — not to change the subject too drastically, but an interesting show you got us tossed on. For those interested, it's up on the shows page at pumarocks.com — go check it out. We also have the rumblings of our winter December tour and what we're gonna be doing out there. But yeah — Devil's Night show, three rappers, three bands. Have you done any research on any of the groups we're playing with?

Brian Pritchard: No, I just know that the pitch alone, when he posted about it, sounded like — those are always some of my favorite things to participate in. I like an eclectic crowd.

Nicky P: A little bit eclectic. I was actually kind of enjoying one rapper's song — something about a Hemi bed frame, about falling asleep in your truck. I ain't gonna lie, the guy kinda looks like me if I decided to become a country rapper.

Brian Pritchard: Okay. Good.

Nicky P: I haven't gotten through all the bands yet. I'm hoping we can actually get a couple of them on the show here, 'cause I'd like to build a community.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, we should do that. I was thinking the same thing with December. I meant to send a note — and this will be my reminder to myself to do it — to our thread with Joey, to ask, "Hey, of your friends, the bands jumping in on these, who are they, so we can introduce ourselves."

Nicky P: I mean, I'm interested in at least getting flyers for all of the shows at this point, to start promoting, because the more information I have, the more I can actually spend some money on "Hey, listen to our stuff" on Facebook or Instagram and whatnot.

Brian Pritchard: For sure. I'm still interested in figuring out what collection of musicians will be representing Puma Thurman and what the show's gonna look like, and the performance, for some of those shows.

Nicky P: Not — what's the word I'm looking for — excited at the non-responses I've gotten from some people regarding that. But such is part of being in the band.

Brian Pritchard: Indeed.

Nicky P: If nothing else, then you know it's gonna be you, me, and Jimmy.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, that's true. We'll have something to show the people.

Nicky P: Absolutely.

Graduation Weekend and Family Life — [00:22:00]

Nicky P: So anything else going on, man? Not to blow your life up, but it was nice to see you at your graduation for your daughter. Your kids are all grown-ups now, officially.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, man. That weekend, the festivities over Labor Day weekend, that was really cool. Got to see you at two events out in the world. It was neat.

Nicky P: We got to see the original guitar player for Puma Thurman back in the day, our buddy Jim. That was good.

Brian Pritchard: That's true. Jim was behind the grill — I didn't spend a lot of time with Jim. Like a lot of functions, there are people who come and go, and I end up feeling that much worse about it at something like a graduation party for my daughter. But I inevitably feel, at any gathering that large, "Ooh, I didn't really give these people enough of my time and attention." I definitely saw you more at Maddie's graduation than I did at James's — talked to you at both, but—

Nicky P: Yes, I plopped myself down at your table to talk to your sister and her boyfriend, but had that not been the case, I probably wouldn't have seen you much there. I ended up mostly talking to that old guy who was at James's place — him and LaVonte and LaVonte's wife eventually. I did actually have a nice heart-to-heart with your wife too — I've definitely never spent that much time talking to Lindsay, so.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's been making a point of trying to venture out more. Everybody's, at the moment, figuring out their lives again. Everybody in the household right now — the five human beings in here — are all in some version of building something new. And that's an interesting energy to be living inside of and living around. I'm glad to be doing it with people I care about so much. I'd shared the observation with my four other roommates that it's cool — any combination of us that finds ourselves together, any pairing of two, three, four, five of us, we do get along and we do enjoy each other. So yeah, it's been nice, and it's also messy and crowded, both literally and emotionally, in my mind and in my heart. It's a busy time, and a lot's going on, but the overlay on all of it really is excitement and enthusiasm.

Choosing Your Attitude — [00:25:00]

Brian Pritchard: Any time I don't feel like the ground is totally steady under my feet, fearful, worried thoughts creep in. I just try not to swim in those waters — I try to let the worried thoughts and ideas, which is all they are, float by. If I'm gonna spend my time conjuring shit up that hasn't come to pass, I'm gonna try really hard to conjure things up that are favorable and positive, 'cause it's just imagination anyway. So that's me reminding myself of these things that are important to me — because we can choose to see the glass as half empty or half full, because we can choose our attitude, we can choose our perspective. I wish to every day succeed in choosing to imagine things going really well. So my work day today, my investment in myself in that space, is going to pay off incredibly well. And my investment in the band, and in this tour for December, is gonna pay off incredibly well. We're gonna pull off some wonderful performances, gain new relationships, learn from it as we always do. And I'm gonna continue to build and nurture the existing relationships. All of that stuff is exciting and wonderful to me. So, let's fucking crush it today, shall we? Shall we crush it today, Nick?

Nicky P: Oh — so you're talking about this glass half full, glass half empty, and I'm just thinking now—

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, bring me back down to earth. Where am I? What the fuck?

Nicky P: No, no, I'm just saying — the glass is made out of Hershey's chocolate, so you go whatever glass you want. I'm just eating the glass, chewing on it.

Brian Pritchard: Yeah, yeah.

Outro: Songwriter Storyteller Shoutout — [00:27:00]

Nicky P: Well, folks, thank you for hanging out with us yet again here at We Came From Celluloid. It's a grab bag of a show — you never know what you're gonna get other than two dads in a band talking about life, music, movies, perhaps the great infinite, the great unknown. As I mentioned last week, please go check out the Songwriter Storyteller podcast with Brian and his old man. I produce the show, but it's a great look at two generations of musician kind of hashing out life, hashing out music, hashing out all the important stuff. So take it easy, everyone. Head over to pumarocks.com as well, and become a part of what we're doing here. Take it easy.

Brian Pritchard: And we're turning it into music and podcast for you.