Raised on Television: Nicky P and Brian on Fight Club, Nu-Metal, and Growing Up Angry | We Came From Celluloid 025

Nicky P and Brian Pritchard start with music nostalgia, Presidents of the USA, Polyphia's Tim Henson, and Dream Theater's post-Portnoy comeback, before the conversation turns personal: Fight Club, nu-metal, and Nicky's own brush with the incel mindset, and the libertarian philosophy that pulled him out of it. They close out with a TV and movie catch-up.

Welcome back to We Came From Celluloid. No guest this week, just me and Brian Pritchard, which means this one wanders wherever we feel like taking it, and this time that ended up being a much bigger place than usual.

We start in familiar territory: music nerd stuff. Presidents of the United States of America's Supermodel leads us into a Kaspar Babypants tangent (still the best kids' music around, fight me), a rant about how modern production has flattened every genre into the same amalgam, and a run through supergroups that should have worked and mostly didn't, Chris Cornell and Timbaland, Gone Is Gone, Killer Be Killed, Giraffe Tongue Orchestra. From there we get into Polyphia, Tim Henson's ongoing evolution, and the Dream Theater album that got good again the moment Mike Portnoy walked back in the door.

What We Cover:

Music and Artistic Evolution:

    • Chris Ballew's second act as Kaspar Babypants, and why kids' music this good shouldn't be this rare
    • Why modern genre-blending production has erased the tonal identity that used to separate hip-hop from country from everything else
    • The supergroups that should have been amazing and mostly weren't: Chris Cornell and Timbaland, Gone Is Gone, and the two that actually delivered, Killer Be Killed and Giraffe Tongue Orchestra
    • Polyphia and Tim Henson chasing "the final form" — and Dream Theater proving a band can still be its best self decades in, once Mike Portnoy's back behind the kit

The Real Talk:

    • How "raised on television" filmmakers from Tarantino to Nathan Fielder connect to a bigger generational thread
    • Fight Club, nu-metal, and the cultural anger of a generation of young men growing up too fast around too much change
    • I get honest about how close I came to going down the incel path myself in my early twenties, and how finding libertarianism, the idea that nobody owes you anything, so go earn it, is what pulled me out
    • Envy, entitlement, Woodstock '99, and why generational wealth almost never survives three generations

What We're Watching:

    • Reacher's new season, finally starting Tulsa King, and Silo on Apple TV (Brian's there for Rebecca Ferguson)
    • The Colin Hanks twist in Silo season two that sent my conspiracy-theory brain into orbit
    • Joe Dante's The Burbs, and why Matinee has always been one of my favorite movies, a love letter to why we watch movies in the first place

The Real Talk:

This one went to a heavier place than usual, and I'm glad it did. It's easy to talk about Fight Club and nu-metal as some abstract cultural moment that happened to other people. It's harder to admit you were close enough to that edge yourself to know exactly what it felt like. What got me out of it wasn't therapy or a pep talk — it was realizing nobody owed me anything, and that the only thing that actually changes your situation is going out and doing the work. That's still how I try to live, and it's what I tell my daughter.

Bottom Line:

No guest, no agenda, just two guys bouncing from Kaspar Babypants to Fight Club to Colin Hanks conspiracy theories in the space of thirty minutes. That's the show.

Full episode: pumarocks.com/podcast/ep-025-nobody-owes-you-anything

If the "finding your own identity after years of not knowing who you were" thread hit home, go back and listen to our conversation with the guys from Masterhand, a very different context, same underlying question. And if the early-2000s nostalgia talk got its hooks in you, dig up our video game nostalgia episode, where we go deep on 8-bit graphics and can't stop talking about them.

Show full transcript Intro & Presidents of the USA's "Supermodel" — [00:00:00] Nicky P: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of We Came From Celluloid. I am Nicky P., here as always with the 10,000-foot-tall Mr. Brian Pritchard. How are we doing there, Mr. 10,000 Feet Tall? Brian Pritchard: I don't know. I guess I'm feeling great. I'm, you know, 10,001 feet perhaps. Nicky P: Yeah, we blew right past Attack of the 50-Foot Woman to 10,000 Feet Tall. Brian Pritchard: That's right, that's right. Well, it's a lovely view. It's a lovely view, you know? Nicky P: Do you remember at all Presidents of the United States of America, their song Supermodel? Brian Pritchard: When I hear the song Supermodel, I think of a needle-drop moment in maybe Scary Movie where it's like, "I'm gonna be a supermodel." Is it that? Nicky P: There's that other '90s supermodel song, you're right. No — Supermodel by them just had a lyric in it: "She's made of metal and a million miles high. Hairdo scrape of the sky. Made it with a Terminator, Schwarzenegger, and nine months later." Ugh, one of my favorite lyricists is Chris from Presidents of the United States of America, because nothing was over-complicated in those songs. And for those who don't know, he went on to have a career as Kaspar Babypants doing kids music. From a parent's perspective, it is the best kids music in the world, because it's basically just Presidents of the United States of America songs. He writes songs about bugs and cats and bears. So much fun. And the musical quality is a higher quality than you'd normally get out of kids music. Guarding Your Own Sound While Consuming Everyone Else's — [00:02:00] Brian Pritchard: The strange epiphany I'm having, in part 'cause I remember liking those singles well enough, is that — unlike with movies — I'm not quite as into seeking out and consuming new music as aggressively as I have been with other things, because I create music. I have this notion of wanting to make sure I have enough space to create my own shit. On the one hand, I do love consuming new music and I love the way it comes in and influences what I make. But there's part of me that wants to be guarded against somehow taking in too much from the outside. Does that make any sense? Nicky P: It does. And what's funny is that I am a voracious music finder. I will search — Brian Pritchard: I know that, and that's why I'm pointing it out — "Damn, that's interesting, isn't it?" 'Cause you're a creator too. Why Modern Music Lost Its Texture — [00:03:00] Nicky P: But what's also funny is that I patently hate the place modern music is in, where it's lost all texture because it's just an amalgam of all the genres smashed together into one genre. Nothing sounds unique or interesting. At least you used to have different tonal palettes for the different genres, and now that's all out the window. I can't tell the difference between a hip-hop track and a country track anymore. I don't necessarily hate that conceptually, but the fact everything is produced that way means there's just nothing there. You have to go off the beaten path to find people being unique and interesting, 'cause modern production techniques lead you to the same place every time. Nostalgia, Blurred Eras, and Supergroups Gone Wrong — [00:04:00] Brian Pritchard: That's very interesting and very true. What comes to mind is how moments in time have their stamp, and sometimes some of it doesn't reveal itself for decades. I mentioned to my mom the other day that I've been having more early-2000s nostalgia — that stuff between, say, 1999 and 2005 — there's a really specific look to the haircuts, the wardrobes, the music, the vehicles, the aesthetic. Nicky P: The minute we can bring mangankos back, damn straight we will. Brian Pritchard: Exactly, wide-leg jeans. So I mentioned that just to say you're right, but I end up feeling like nothing is permanent — that ends up being another thing that grows and evolves. But yes, that blurring of lines is interesting. Even when I think of — well, shit, the Queens of the Stone Age Mark Ronson record's almost 10 years old at this point. But even there, didn't Chris Cornell make an album with — Nicky P: Dimlin, and it was not good. Brian Pritchard: No, fair enough, but that is sort of what I was thinking of — Nicky P: I wanted it to be so good. I wanted it to be good so bad, and it was not, and I hate that it wasn't. Supergroups That Should Have Worked: Chris Cornell, Gone Is Gone, and Killer Be Killed — [00:06:00] Brian Pritchard: There are super-group things in all sorts of areas where even that — did you ever hear Gone Is Gone, the record Queens of the Stone Age and Mastodon made together? I'm going, "This is gonna be a treat," and it was not. It was the two Troys working together — Van Leeuwen and Sanders — and somehow it was really bad. Nicky P: I don't remember it sucking. I just remember it being kind of eh. And eh is almost worse. I'd almost rather something fail spectacularly — swing for the fences as hard as you can, boys, and give me something that's either gonna be amazing or terrible. Brian Pritchard: Whereas Troy did a different one — was it the Giraffe Tongue one? The Dillinger guy and Max Cavalera — Killer Be Killed, where all three of them are on vocals. Those two records are amazing. Giraffe Tongue Orchestra is also amazing — that was Brent, and the singer from Alice in Chains, William Duvall. Whoever was playing bass, I sadly don't remember, that's on me. But the drummer was the guy — Thomas Pridgen, who'd been on those Mars Volta records and is just super, super tasty. I don't know, I wanna find out what he's been up to since then. I remember when Volta put out the single Wax Simulacra, they played on Letterman, and it was the first time I'd ever seen a talk show rig up a dedicated drum cam above him, pointed down, because he was that cool. Even the Letterman show, which has gotta be bored of this stuff, was watching a rehearsal and going, "Okay, how can we rig up a camera in the ceiling for this guy?" It was really cool. Nicky P: No, I mean, that's — it's interesting how long ago all that is. Jesus. Polyphia, Tim Henson, and Waiting for His Final Form — [00:08:00] Brian Pritchard: Have you heard the new Polyphia singles? Nicky P: Strangely, they have not made their way into my ecosystem. I'll have to go look them up. I've had some new stuff pop up, but that wasn't it. Brian Pritchard: I bring it up because — I noticed in iTunes that their new album is classified as dance in the category. It's not metal, it's not anything, it's listed as a dance record. If you listen to the track Can You Feel It, that's their lead single — it literally feels designed to be a club track, in a way that, as much as they've clearly been playing in that space. Anyway, I hope there's still a little bit of, you know. Nicky P: I'm always interested to see where Tim goes with it, though. That's kind of part of the charm of them — you have a young guy who basically reinvented the way you play guitar, then moved to LA to learn how to produce music, and came out with all these wild ideas. I'm not always on board, but — Brian Pritchard: Keep going, dude. Keep going. I'm cheering. Nicky P: Yeah, just keep trying things. One of these days, I just feel like — I feel like the kid in The Incredibles, on the track at the end of the driveway. "Hey kid, what are you doing?" "I don't know, waiting for something amazing." Part of my life is just seeing what's gonna be the final form of Tim Henson. He's always pushing that envelope. Dream Theater's Portnoy Return and the Thrill of Late-Career Mastery — [00:10:00] Brian Pritchard: I was really enjoying listening to the Dream Theater album they made recently after Mike Portnoy came back and rejoined the band as their drummer. They put out a killer record — everything that had ever drawn me into that band suddenly was presented to me again. And I think of the late-era Black Sabbath album, 13, and the late-era Tears for Fears album. There's a way that seasoned artists can deliver their best work that's so exciting to me — an artist attaining increased seasoning and age. And it's absolutely thrilling to see the people coming up too. You said "change the way you play guitar" — it didn't inspire me to change the way I play guitar, but Polyphia was the first time that style of Dream Theater virtuoso playing somehow felt like it could be mainstream, could be in a dance club. Like, "Whoa, that's actually really interesting, good for you, buddy." From Boy Band Look to Neck Tattoos: Tim Henson Then and Now — [00:12:00] Brian Pritchard: Even their early videos — Max and I would laugh. I remember the first time I heard Polyphia was Max sending me one of their videos, maybe the James Franco mask video they had back in the day — one that showed their faces, 'cause he was like, "They look like a boy band, a teenage boy band, but they're running circles around what we can do in terms of ability." Nicky P: That's a long time ago, 'cause they don't look like a boy band anymore. They look like a Japanese teen heartthrob or a K-pop artist with a bunch of old bearded men behind them. Brian Pritchard: Yeah, Tim definitely still has a baby face, but he's tried to get tougher with the neck tattoos, just to be like, "No, I'm a grown boy." Nicky P: But it's also funny 'cause you hear him do interviews and he's the sweetest, soft-spoken dude in the world — completely belies it. Ugh, you remember when tattoos used to mean you were a hard person? Now they don't mean shit. John Wilson, Nathan Fielder, and the "Raised on Television" Generation — [00:13:00] Brian Pritchard: I had that thought recently too, dude — I wondered: did I even spend too much time trying to be cool or embraced, instead of truly embracing the deepest, nerdiest parts of myself? I say that in part reacting to — what you brought up about Tim brought it to mind — do you know who John Wilson is, the filmmaker who does little documentary shorts? HBO has a series called How To with John Wilson. Watch an episode and see if it grabs you. It really grabbed me, and then I noticed in the end credits that Nathan Fielder — Nicky P: You mean the Nathan For You guy? Brian Pritchard: The other name will come back to me, so I'll concentrate on Nathan Fielder for a minute. I noticed Nathan Fielder was an executive producer, and I'm going, "That's not surprising, these dudes have a similar energy." I'm thinking about how there's this new-school documentary style, and another generation — Tarantino was a huge example of this, but now there's at least one, maybe two generations removed at this point. Let me put it this way: Tarantino, Kevin Smith is generation one. Seth Rogen is a generation removed, almost, from those guys, just for simplicity. But then you have another generation removed now that's coming up. All of them I'm putting into this category that ties back into our world of raised-on-television people. Fight Club, Nu-Metal, and a Generation of Angry Young Men — [00:15:00] Brian Pritchard: Fucking Fight Club, man. I hadn't watched it in 10 years. I'm watching it, and there's a monologue from Brad Pitt — part of it I got excited about, and then I cringed by the end of the speech. The first half is him going, "We are a generation of men raised on television." But by the end of it, he's going — Nicky P: "And we're really pissed off," Brian Pritchard: right? And I'm going, okay, the raised-on-television part, I like. Fight Club obviously sort of feels like it ended up almost birthing aspects of the incel movement, and it's so, so fucking — Nicky P: Actually, I was a big Chuck Palahniuk fan back in the day. My college English professor was a big Chuck Palahniuk fan, so we read him as academic work in college. Fight Club the book is definitely covering something that was happening. You gotta remember when the book came out, though — I think we're talking 1994. Now think about what was going on musically in the world, what was coming up — the answer's nu-metal. What's the basis behind nu-metal? Pissed-off, angry white people, in particular young white men. You think about the angst of our youth, perhaps unwarranted angst — but when we were kids, the average white dude was pretty fucking pissed off, and I think a lot of it is the culture had changed in many ways around us — the rise of feminism, the rise of... None of these things am I saying are bad things, people, I'm not going there. But the point is, culturally, the world was changing really fast for us, not necessarily in positive ways like it did for everybody else. So there's a lot of truth in that. I think some of us adjusted better and learned how to be people, so we didn't go down that path. Nicky's Brush With the Incel Path — and Finding Libertarianism — [00:17:00] Nicky P: The incel thing is actually something very different — it has to do with the mating politics with men and women. I've actually been on podcasts before talking on the subject specifically, because I came very, very close to going down that path myself. I had very tough years after college where — as I put it — the girl choosing to date the junkie sleeping on my couch as opposed to hang out with me, it's like, well, what's the fucking point of any of this if I'm so unvaluable that that's a choice somebody would make? Like, what's the fucking point of any of this? Why did I do anything? Why do I have a fucking job? Why am I working my ass off to do things in life? Now you realize it's 'cause you're choosing the wrong people to go after in the first place. Find better women — and ultimately I did find my wife. There's parallel parts of society that ended up in those places, but it's gonna be real interesting to see how, societally, if you look at Gen Z, and what I'm imagining Gen Alpha — nobody has sex anymore. We're going to drop off population-wise off a cliff, super fast, because culturally they just don't do it. Brian Pritchard: There's a vibe — when you get into being aggressive, bitter, sorry-for-yourself energy around it, there's only so much of that I'm inclined to indulge at all. There's a notion with any negative feeling that we can't control the thoughts that come into our head, and our reactions. I mentioned earlier the idea of, "Gee, did I..." Maybe I had a hard time embracing the nerdier aspects of myself, not just in terms of trying to get a girlfriend, but even trying to have peers in general at any given time. There's moments where you're made to feel small, weak, inferior, less than. But the world doesn't owe me anything. My fellow human beings don't owe me anything. Women don't owe me anything. Men don't owe me friendship. Women don't owe me affection. Nobody owes me anything. Nicky P: That's ultimately how I broke out personally from going down that path — I discovered libertarianism, which is about, dude, nobody owes you shit. You want something, you're going to go out and fucking work for it. And yeah, maybe the deck is stacked against you and you're going to have to work harder, but that doesn't change the math equation of getting what you want in life — you're going to have to work. Sometimes it's harder for other people than it is for others, but not doing anything isn't going to do anything for you. So figure it the fuck out. Envy, Entitlement, and the Ghost of Woodstock '99 — [00:20:00] Brian Pritchard: I still experience moments of some version of envy. But I find it unpleasant and gross. And yet, like a lot of things in the world, feelings can surface. But there's that sense that we still have a choice about our attitudes. A lot of that comes with maturity, and you're right — it's creepy looking at where Fight Club landed in 1999, the Woodstock '99 of it all, and Limp Bizkit. And by the way, this isn't new modern thinking — I remember at the time, I liked Limp Bizkit's first album, followed along on the second. By the third, there were guys in my world blasting Chocolate Starfish with an energy where I'm going, "This isn't a club I wanna be a part of." I'm not opposed to pornography, I love celebrating sexuality — but when I say the Girls Gone Wild culture, there was an aspect of that too where it felt exploitational and gross, in a way that white men were trying to stake their claim, going, "Fuck it, we run everything. Hip-hop, it's ours. Women, it's ours. We want everything." It's just too fucking much, dude. It's too much. Nicky P: To me, I look at all that and it's like the last gasp of the saddest people on Earth. I don't feel envy a whole lot anymore. Brian Pritchard: It's rare. No, I'm just acknowledging it exists. You can feel like, "I want what they have, how come they have that and I don't?" I live near Lake Road, which is full of mansions with gorgeous waterfront views. I'll regularly be driving past these going, "What is it again that separates me from this? Goddammit." Nicky P: Well, usually my answer is a lot of fucking work that I don't wanna do. I like being around my family, so there's a place where I cap out and say, "I don't wanna do this shit anymore, I'm gonna go be around my family." And sometimes it's generational, but the math is that most people lose an entire family's wealth within three generations. So even long-term familial wealth isn't something people keep around like people think it is. Brian Pritchard: Somebody picks up the ball and runs with it eventually. Nicky P: Yeah, somebody loses it all and squanders it. Brian Pritchard: Instead of picking up the ball and running, they sit there and go, "Here it is, well, we'll just go with X." Nicky P: Spike it right at the quarter yard line, get sacked. This Week's Watch List: Reacher, Tulsa King, and Silo — [00:24:00] Nicky P: So what do you — I'll move this along, 'cause I've been watching a lot of stuff lately. Reacher came out and started putting out new episodes for season four. I recently decided, "I'm gonna get a Paramount+ subscription" — I'd been sitting looking at Tulsa King for too long without watching it, so I started that up. Started watching Silo on Apple TV. And Ted Lasso came out with season four, and I've been watching that. It's been a whirlwind of TV this week. Brian Pritchard: Silo, of all of those, has maybe the most interest to me, because I love Rebecca Ferguson — she's amazing. Nicky P: Who's she? Brian Pritchard: I think she's the lead of that show, from the ads on my Apple TV. She's from some Mission Impossible movies, Dr. Sleep, and The Greatest Showman. Nicky P: Okay, I definitely know she's the black-hat lady, or red-hat lady, in Dr. Sleep, and I watched that one once — the book I remember better than the movie, 'cause the book was awesome. My big takeaway is, they made a shittier, less fun version of Fallout, is what that show is. Brian Pritchard: I still haven't seen that either. Nicky P: It's literally the premise of Fallout, maybe a few less factions is the word. The Hanks Family Conspiracy and Silo's Big Twist — [00:25:00] Nicky P: I was watching season two kind of as I was working, not paying a whole ton of attention, just listening and absorbing — and get to the last episode of the season, I think, when I realized — oh, shit — it wasn't quite the last episode, but Colin Hanks is playing the multi-trillionaire, or whatever it is, that's actually responsible for everything, and oh my God, dude, all of my conspiracy-theory hairs on the back of my neck are screaming, jumping off my body. Goddamn these Hanks people. Why is it always one of them in these post-apocalyptic "this is how you're gonna live when we get to do what we want" movies? It's always one of them. Brian Pritchard: I remember brainstorming with some local business owners once, trying to get local celebrities — and, also on Lake Road near me, I drive past the Joyce Hanks Community Theater quite often, and I know the Hanks family does have some roots here, specifically connected to theater. I've always thought of Hanks as a sweetie with a great reputation, and the conspiracy-theory stuff, to me, is hilarious. Joe Dante, The Burbs, and a Love Letter Called Matinee — [00:27:00] Brian Pritchard: I just watched The Burbs for the first time in the last month and loved it. I'm a huge Joe Dante fan but kind of a late bloomer on him. The Joe Dante movie I watched the most as a kid, oddly enough, was Matinee, not Gremlins or Innerspace. Innerspace I watched a fair amount, and remember catching it on TV and being blown away, but — Nicky P: As a kid, I probably watched Gremlins more than anything, but Matinee has always been one of my favorite movies, because as a person who likes movies and likes horror movies, that's just a love letter. That's all that thing is — a love letter to why movies are so much fun and what they can aspire to be in the world. Brian Pritchard: I saw it in theaters, got it on VHS when it came out, and you don't realize something was a flop when, as a kid, it's just, "Oh my God, this exciting new movie, Matinee." That's what I'm saying about going to school in your Matinee T-shirt and people going, "Nerd!" Nicky's Own Crossroads, and the Advice He Gives His Daughter — [00:28:30] Nicky P: I have so many other instances — what's funny is I had the experience of having that crossroads, kind of, where after a point in my life I could say I have nothing to prove when it comes to women, because I'd already been with better-looking women than anyone I knew had ever been with. Being able to play guitar in college was very useful to me in that way. So I'd already maxed out — I'd been with tens, I don't need to prove anything there. But there was still that element of feeling unvalued. Honestly, maybe it even stems from coming out of college and not being able to, quote-unquote, "find a real job." Eventually I just kind of made up my own job, to a certain degree. It's a weird world there, folks. It's always better to just work hard and go after the things you want. That's what I tell my daughter — even if you're starting from ten paces back, whining about it isn't gonna do you any good. You just gotta go after it. Anyways, Brian, anything else you wanna get off your chest before we start recording your podcast with your old man? Brian Pritchard: No, man. Let's just keep hanging on and moving forward. Always a pleasure, dude. That was a good chat. Outro: Teasing Brian's Podcast With His Dad — [00:30:00] Nicky P: Always a pleasure. Thank you all for listening. Head on over to pumarocks.com, get on the mailing list, and see what else we got going on in our world. And hopefully soon — I'm imagining in the next week or two — we'll actually start getting out Brian's podcast with his old man. We have a lot of uploads, episodes back catalog. But it's gonna be a fun one. You wanna hear two generations of musician talk about the craft and talk about life — it's gonna be a great listen.

FAQ

What does Nicky P mean when he says he almost went down the "incel path"?
After college, Nicky went through a period where romantic rejection, including a partner choosing someone else over him, left him questioning his own worth. He says discovering libertarian philosophy, and the idea that "nobody owes you anything," is what pulled him out of that mindset before he eventually met his wife.
What connection do Nicky and Brian draw between Fight Club and nu-metal?
They trace both back to a generation of young men "raised on television" who grew up angry as the culture shifted quickly around them. Nicky notes the Fight Club novel came out in 1994, right as nu-metal was rising out of that same underlying frustration.
What TV shows and movies do Nicky and Brian talk about in this episode?
They cover Reacher season four, Tulsa King and Silo (on Paramount+ and Apple TV, respectively), Ted Lasso's new season, Silo's Colin Hanks twist, Joe Dante's The Burbs, and why Matinee is one of Nicky's all-time favorite movies.
What is Kaspar Babypants, and why does Nicky recommend it?
Kaspar Babypants is the kids'-music project of Chris Ballew, former frontman of Presidents of the United States of America. Nicky calls it the best kids' music around because it keeps the same simple, high-quality songwriting, just aimed at bugs, cats, and bears.
Is there a specific show, venue, or tour date mentioned in this episode?

No. The only upcoming project mentioned is Brian's new podcast with his father, which Nicky says should start rolling out "in the next week or two," though no exact date is given.

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